Guest Post: King of Fighters 13 is heading in the right direction

[Raelcun is the nerdy younger brother of wundergeek and sticks mostly to PC Gaming but delves into consoles now and then. He does high level Starcraft 2 commentary under the same name and some technical work on the production end for Starcraft 2 Team FXOpen E-sports. You can find some videos of his work here, but he hasn’t been as active recently.

In general he tends to agree with wundergeek on her rantings about video games and even sends her examples of the terrible works now and then for laughs and while looking over some KoF13 footage was inspired to write up a bit more of a positive outlook on some of the same issues wundergeek goes over on her blog.]

Okay, the key point in the title here would be: “is heading in the right direction”. This is extremely important, because in no way is KOF13 perfectly designed and without flaw. There are definite problems, but one of the things that has impressed me the most about this game is how much it has artistically improved from earlier entries in the series. To clarify, female characters who have been badly portrayed in previous iterations have been almost universally more positively portrayed in this game. I find this to be the focal point and the reason why I say they’re heading in the correct direction, even if there are still more improvements they could make.

First of all, I will divide the characters I’m going to be discussing specifically into a few categories: the awesome, the not-as-awesome-but-still-improved, and problematic. These classifications are by my standards and opinions; you might disagree with them, but I’m the one writing this post.

So let’s start with a mashup of all of the characters from the newest installation of the King of Fighters series:

CLICK FOR LARGER VIEW

These are all taken from the official website and are the official artwork for the newest KoF. As a whole this is pretty badass; the designs are pretty decent, there aren’t too many glaring anatomy issues, and the quality of the artwork is high overall. Mai down there on the bottom is a problem, but frankly my sister has gone over the problems with Mai many, many times in the past so I’m not going to go too in depth with her.

A side note regarding atypical male characters

One of the most encouraging things about the cast of characters I found is that there’s a specific group of characters that are a little different from the others. The men have a pretty good variety in body types but there’s also these four fellows:

Now if I were to tell you that these were all female characters, there might not be any immediate disagreements as they are designed and portrayed in a rather feminine manner. K is probably the most masculine of them all but he could probably still pass for a woman if you didn’t know any better. I find that characters like this are awesome in light of the fact that most fighting games tend to go too far into the extremes of gender stereotyping. Characters are either VERY MANLY or EXTREMELY FEMININE.
(Furthermore, it tends to be extremely apparent that a woman is a woman because her bewbs are thrust into our faces.) So it’s great that these four characters create a little bit of question in their sex. I knew that Benimaru, Duolon, and K were male, but I legitimately thought that Ash was female for quite a long time. I like the fact that this is true and the next thing to come hopefully would be more diversity in the females… (Hint hint hint)

But that’s enough about that. On to the women of King of Fighters 13, because that’s where the real controversy is. So first up:

The Awesome

This is Elisabeth, she is obviously an equestrian character and her original design was… well pretty bad, what with the unnecessary heels and the random boobage. In her next appearance the cleavage disappeared, and in her current iteration the heels are smaller a little bit more reasonable but still a mite too large. (Riding boots do have a little bit of heel to them, just not quite that much.) Overall though, her design is pretty badass, which is why she’s under the awesome instead of the “improved.” Her riding crop is reasonable and not too BDSMish and her outfit is pretty accurate for an equestrian character, and stylish to boot.

If I had to score Elisabeth out of 10, I’d give her an 8. That might be a little bit harsh considering that her anatomy is pretty good, but her waist is on the small end for an athlete. (If you don’t think Equestrians are athletes try riding horses for hours on end. Seriously, ouch.) Also, her heels (again) are just a little bit too big and narrow for real riding boots, especially since she has to fight in them too. Still she’s pretty effing sweet and if you look up footage of her on youtube she kicks some major ass as with style and grace as well.

This is King, and I have to say she is probably my favorite female from this series. She is completely awesome, as are her previous incarnations. I especially like 2003 version with the nice jacket, and her expression as to say she might deign to give you the rose, instead of the other way around. There’s not much I can nitpick on here, except maybe again her waist size for an athlete. However, not only does she wear a tuxedo, but it’s a badass tuxedo – which rocks since tuxes are usually reserved for men in most designs. On top of this usually when you see one on a woman it’s been “modified” to “fit the female form” (code for showing lots of skin) so it’s nice to see a pretty sweet female character in a real
tux in a fighting game.

Bonus points go to her for wearing the gloves as well; too many people in fighting games fight bare fisted. Hell, even professional fighters don’t do that. (Really, watch UFC.) Also, look at her shoes! Her shoes are actually pretty flat no heels. Since heels in fighting games are one of my BIGGEST pet peeves, she passes on that one as well. Overall I’d give her a 9 out of 10 when it comes to character design, the only problem here being her waist being far too small for a serious athlete who kicks some serious ass.

The not-as-awesome-but-still-improved

Next up we have the “improved”. These are the ones that still have their issues but have improved so much compared to previous designs that I wouldn’t call them terrible or a straight up “problem.”

Admittedly, Athena is VERY close to being dropped in the “Problematic” pile, but her saving graces here are two specific things: 1) her skirt length has increased significantly in the newest game and 2) her job as a character is “pop star” a job in which if you’re not being sexualized you’re doing it wrong (in Japan at least.) One of the other things in her favor is the fact that you can see there has been quite a bit of redesign going on with Athena, there are some ups and down in the previous iterations but her most recent one is not terrible.

She is portrayed a little bit on the young end but she’s supposed to be around the 18 marker, so she barely gets by on that aspect. Also, the fact that she’s wearing flats instead of heels is also in her favor. In the current design her skirt would almost fit the dress code of the high school I went to, so when it comes to skimpy Japanese school girl outfits this is pretty tame. None the less, she’s just barely in the “improved” pile and is a few design changes away from being thrown right into “problematic.” I’d give her about a 5 out of 10 on the design scale, mostly due to the fact that her breast size isn’t over the top her skirt is almost reasonable, and the lack of heels and exposed midriff.

This is Leona, and again she’s close to being thrown into the problematic pile because of the tank top.

She’s obviously a military character, and for some reason game designers seem to think that they all like to expose a lot of skin. (Like Cammy.) This is somewhat of a pet peeve in that generally when you’re getting shot at, most people tend to think that having your skin covered is a good idea.

However, there are two reasons why she’s in the less-awesome-but-still-improved pile and not in the “problematic” pile. First is the fact that she HAS PANTS now instead of ridiculous butt shorts that make her boots look just plain silly. Secondly is the fact that her outfit is close to identical to the male counterparts on her team:

They’re not 100% the same but it’s pretty damn close. (Obviously, if she’s going to have a bullet belt she can’t have the same over the top caliber that her male counterparts have or she’d look a little silly.) She does suffer from the one recurring theme of King of Fighters, though – giving pretty extreme athletes tiny waists. So I guess I’m going to stop harping on this because it happens with pretty much every female in this game. But the reason I keep bringing this up is that they are supposedly the top fighters in the world. They’re going to have muscle down there. Come on. Seriously.

Still, I’d say that she’s better than Athena at least because she has pants – which is a pretty big deal in a fighting game. Her tank top is a little bit on the silly end; I’d like to see it be a little bit more covering to match her male counterparts a bit more. But as is, I will mark is as passable. Overall this translates into about a 6 out of 10, her bewbs are a little bit on the silly end but I’ll be nice and chalk that up to the fact that if you’re going to be fighting you’re going to want some damn support and not have them be flopping all over the place painfully.

I’m going to do these two at the same time as they’re almost the same design-wise. Also, they’re on the same fighting team and therefore have almost identical fighting styles. In two most recent games, they both have had the same costume (with a color swap).

The blonde is “Mature” and the Redhead is “Vice”. (Yes their names are rather suggestive and that part makes me facedesk a little bit. But I will try not to harp on the names as it’s tough for a company to change a character name without dealing with angry nerds.) Their current outfits are both pretty badass and while the cleavage shown there is a bit more than necessary for a business suit; to be fair in game you basically can’t see it as they both spend most of the time with their backs turned to the viewer. So while I’d like to see those shirts maybe have a few more buttons done up, it’s not actually too bad in game.

Both of these characters had pretty ridiculous outfits in the past. Like, seriously, what kind of dress is that? I’ve heard of having a slit down the side but a dress that’s just open in the front? I’m glad they dropped that design and of course when the new character designs (actually their original design) were revealed, almost all of the comments were about how they missed the dresses. When it comes to the score on these two I’d give them both 7 out of 10 in design. You can’t see it in these pictures but neither of these ladies are sporting high heels, which again is good seeing as they’re jumping around and doing kicks constantly.

The problematic

The last three characters I have here are just problems. They are problems for different reasons, to be fair, but each of them are to the point where I just facedesk in reaction.

This is Kula. Now, your first reaction is probably something like, “But Raelcun! She has pants and no exposed skin!” And, yes, that is true but the problem here is that she’s fourteen and that outfit is rather sexualized for a fourteen year old. The anatomy in her 2001 outfit is frankly disturbing, and in maximum impact she’s holding a lollipop? Seriously? Her design would be fine if she was older, or maybe if her top didn’t have that nice little “BOOBS!” golden outline. There’s not much else to discuss here and this is
probably where I’ll get the most detractors. I‘m just not a big fan of the sexualization of minors and for that reason Kula bothers me.

She does get a slight begrudging nod in yet again resisting the urge to put her into heels against the efforts of seemingly the rest of the industry. And for this I’ll give her a 4; her boobs are a little large for a fourteen year old, but you know sometimes that happens. However, she suffers from the same waist problem as the other female characters, and the golden BOOBS outline is, frankly, ridiculous.

This is Mai. She is a problem. We don’t really need to discuss why as you can figure this out basically just by looking at her. But surprisingly I actually have a few positive things to say here. When looking over the gallery of official artwork for Mai I realized that this current iteration is actually a slight improvement. (We’re talking very slight here.) I mean look at the anatomy on the 2001 one, and her posture is very slightly better than 2000, though she still suffers from some serious sphere boobage. Surprisingly, though, compare this to the other pictures present here, and the Mai in KOF 13 the current one is actually somewhat preferable. See included picture below for more reference.

I could easily have included this with the first group and most people wouldn’t have known the difference, but I’m striving to have some integrity here. So the difference between this one is that it was actually rejected by the company for the 2001 game. So the designers had enough sense to realize that when the artist turned this in for Mai it was just going way too far. I don’t need to discuss why. I mean, just look at it.

She’s got some serious problems with her boobs there, pretty classic horribly uncomfortable back arch and her torso is pretty damn elongated. Anatomy wise, the current Mai – gigantic unrealistically shaped breasts aside – her anatomy isn’t actually too terrible in comparison. So I’ll give the current Mai a generous 3 in design. There’s no possible way she can fight in that outfit and have her top stay on the upper portion of her body. There’s pretty much no amount of body glue that will make that stay on while punching kicking, as well as getting punched kicked and thrown vigorously. In design terms this is what we would classify as “You’re doing it wrong.”

This is Yuri… Yuri is at first glance pretty well designed, but she is a major problem because of the fact that she has problems keeping her clothes on. The worst part is that her design is actually pretty good despite this one major factor. I’ll leave the details of this particular problem up to the fine folks over at the SNK Wiki:

• In some games, when Yuri is knocked out with a special move, the top of her costume flies off. This happens in Art of Fighting 2, The King of Fighters ’94, The King of Fighters ’95, The King of Fighters XIII.
• In Capcom vs. SNK 2, when Yuri finishes a fight with a “Dramatic KO” (finish with a super move as a counter to an opponent’s special or super move), she will attempt to tie her gi tighter. However, the belt becomes completely undone and her top opens, revealing a semi sheer undershirt. Yuri will then blush in total embarrassment and immediately cover herself. This victory pose first appeared in Art of Fighting 2 when Yuri scores a Perfect victory.

And this is where I move beyond the facedesk and have to work very hard to not smash my head into a wall. According to the game story she is in fact 18 so she’s not technically a minor but she’s drawn to look like one so I’m going to count this as “sexualization of minors, with a very thin excuse to get away from that on a mere technicality.” I mean first guesses looking at her current picture at least I would put her at 16 or 17; oddly enough the older ones look more mature 2002 and 2000 especially. But she definitely looks much younger in the current iteration and this really annoys me.

IF we assume that she learns how to keep her outfit on at this point after 10+ years of fighting then I’d give her character design a 7 in any upcoming game that features her current design plus her clothes staying on. Her breasts are reasonably done, she’s decently covered, wearing sensible shoes, and has her hair under control in a pretty reasonable manner for a fighter. I’m sorry but if you have long hair you’re going to tie it up or back somehow before you get into an organized fight. (Yet another pet peeve when it comes to fighting games.) But since she has once again shown a tendency to not tie her top tight enough I am forced to give her a generous 2 because it annoys me that much. Seriously learn to keep your clothes on it really isn’t that hard. I put this as worse than Mai because while Mai has serious issues at least she’s employing copious amounts of I assume arcane power to keep her clothes still technically in the “on” position.

Overall King of Fighters 13 is moving in the right direction and it seems to me at least that the good aspects are outweighing the bad. King of Fighters as an actual game is traditionally made very well and to see the artwork starting to match that is encouraging. The artwork for Street Fighter (I’m looking at you Cammy) is still a pretty large problem but hopefully some other games will take a gander over at King of Fighter 13 and will copy some of the positive aspects and not… Mai.

65 thoughts on “Guest Post: King of Fighters 13 is heading in the right direction

      • Heh, Willow is making a sarcastic reference to previous commenter who seemed annoyed at the lack of ‘objective’ male guest posters. It was pretty facedesk-y, to use your term.

        • He was taking issue at the lack of other guest posters, not male writers. More opinions from all walks of life will tend towards more objectivity. That’s just science.

          But to be fair this is the internet and your own personal blog, so you’ve got no obligation to do anything. You aren’t being held accountable to say or do anything in any particular way.

          You only change hearts and minds through understanding though. A good way to do that? Get as many people involved in the dialog as possible.

      • It matters because now there’s an ever increasing number of viewpoints on this blog. It’s well on its way to a more evenhanded, varied perspective towards gender roles in videogames and even media. Your gender matters because this whole blog is about gender.

        Unfortunately the some of the “readers” on this blog saw a comment they didn’t understand and went with it. She’s referring to a comment I made about different perspectives on the same issues enhancing the quality of the writing, and most importantly, improving on the quality of understanding. But it was generally seen as “Men are right and women are wrong” instead of the far more accurate “women are right and men are pigs”.

        As for your post, it’s really refreshing to see a positive or at least optimistic post on here regarding the portrayal of men and women in videogames. It’s important to note that these are certainly issues that CAN be addressed, and there are people out there trying their damn hardest to appeal to a wider audience whilst retaining profitability.

        I’d love to see this as a regular feature, highlighting games that have improved their portrayal of women in their games. I’d suggest the transition in character design in Kaileena from Prince of Persia: Warrior Within to Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones as a good example of improvement that you could talk about, but there are certainly more examples than that.

        Great job Wondergeek and Raelcun.

  1. Dude nice post (this still applies even if you are wundergeeks male alter-ego on the net and yes I get paranoid episodes here and there). I agree with almost all that you said here, I would not have used the same words but you covered my opinion on most of the character art perfectly.

    And now the only one I disagree with: Kula is a 14 year-old girl who was ,,blanked” then programed both genetically to be a fighter (witch could have triggered her puberty or made it go into overdrive) and then psychologically to be similar in style to K (you know the feminine looking character) and yet also be his combat foil. And on top of all that she was turned into an assassin for the people that literary made her into what she is now. So while I do not know what her fighting style the KOF 2000 and 13 pictures look like art from different generation consoles for the same character, but I do agree with you on the golden thread stitches: they emphasize her breasts for no good reason other then character statement (fan service).

    • You can google my name to find any of my Starcraft work man I’m the one in the green shirt with the mop in her Soraka post. Kula’s backstory doesn’t really justify the fact that her outfit doesn’t belong on a 14 year old. Any number of things could have been changed to make it more age appropriate but they decided to even add the golden “BOOBS!” stitches to emphasize it even more. So this is why I took issue with her character design.

  2. Nice post! I actually disagree on whether “mature” and “vice” are improvements… People miss the dress for a reason and that is because they were at least more interesting. Now its just a tad boring.

    • Another detail that perhaps bears mentioning is that Vice and Mature did wear shorts underneath their dresses. It doesn’t make said dresses any less ridiculous, but at least the characters never flashed their underwear left and right, which I suppose might count for something.

      • The dress combat wise is a bit pointless but I would make the argument that business suits aren’t any less ridiculous if you want to go the realism is better route.

  3. I’d like to see you guys do one of these for Street Fighter.

    My own opinion there that all characters, especially in SSF4, can be held as equally absurd in terms of design. When it comes to females, there’s really not much excusing Cammy’s perpetual lack of pants, but among the rest there’s the potentially-excusable based on context (Sakura, Juri) and the perfectly practical (Makoto, possibly Ibuki). Chun-li’s figure is fairly absurd (though not completely impossible in real life), but then, so is Zangief’s, and he wears much, much less.

    In addition, particularly in SF4, all of the women have extremely toned physiques, and there’s little question that they look like legitimate fighters and athletes–worth particular mention is Ibuki, who’s portayed as a flirtatious teenager (her type of character shows up everywhere) but bears rather impressive biceps. Giving women identical supermodel bodies is one of my biggest pet peeves, and for that alone I appreciate what Capcom’s artists have done there.

    So yes. Similar critiques on Street Fighter–or other fighting games in general–would be great!

    • I’d love to see an article on Mortal Kombat 9’s characters too. All the women wore wedgie-inducing bikinis that showed off their ass cheeks and (over the top) cleavage, while most of the men wore full body armor or martial arts gear. The difference was face palmingly noticeable.

  4. Not a bad article, but I somewhat question your decision to put King and Yuri at essentially opposite ends of the spectrum, or at least your argumentation for it. I do agree with you that the moe-fication of Yuri is problematic – and Athena is equally bad – in, say, KOF99 they were both clearly young adults while in more recent instalments they’ve started looking increasingly adolescent.

    However, your main argument for Yuri’s low ranking seem to be her inability to keep her clothes on, but the fact is that the only instance of this in KOF13 is her top being destroyed when KO’ed by a special attack – which also applies to King. This feature is a reference to the Art of Fighting games (which is why it only applies to those of AOF origins and no other female characters), and actually what exposed King as being Female; in the original AOF she was a bouncer, posing as a male.

    On another note though, while I guess your notes mostly related to the artwork, and not how the characters are depicted in the game itself, one thing I’m not really thrilled with personally is how most of the female characters seem to have very thin limbs. You mentioned the universally thin waists in the artwork, but in the actual game most female characters’ arms especially look almost disturbingly spindly. Believable for fashion models perhaps, but not very appropriate for world-class fighters, even if allowing for a certain degree of artistic stylization.

    Having said that though, I guess KOF does have an admirable amount of variety in body shapes (for a fighting game!). Pretty much all of the male characters are muscular and strong-looking to some extent, but some are definitely thinner than others, and characters like Takuma, Raiden, Chin and Goro are arguably pretty far from both Japanese and western ideals.

    • This. King’s one of my favorite characters, so that fact that our author just didn’t know this (or notice the constantly increasing bust) is a bit of a face-palm. That’s not getting into the freakishly thin arms her sprite has, either.

      In fact, why aren’t we talking about in-game sprites?They’re the ones we’re going to actually be looking at, after all, and the KOF wiki has rips of them, so there’s no excuse not to do so.

        • 3,000 words is excessive now? God damn, I’ve been in the ivory tower way too long!

          As to discussing concept art, we’re not critiquing the actual game itself when we do so, it’s more of a marketing thing. I’m fine with that, it’s still an important discussion, but it makes the post title a bit misleading.

          • As a rule most of the characters in KoF are pretty much copy and paste as you see them in the concept art. And it’s way harder to critique in detail the smaller images that are provided of in game artwork.

            • Not always. I mentioned King’s freakishly thin arms, remember? That doesn’t show up in the concept art.

              Butt sure, it’s a bit easier to do it this way.

  5. Mai could definitely do with a sports bra.
    I don’t find the suits that Mature and Vice are wearing to practical fighting attire. You can applaud how covered up they are all you like but these girls do not look like fighters.
    Leona is my favorite. She looks totally badass. I don’t see what your issue with the tank top is. I wore a tank top when I took Kung Fu because it was comfortable and easy to move around in. Not to mention how much of a sweat I worked up lol. There’s nothing worse than clothes sticking to you during training. I approve of tank top.

    • I can sort of see how the author can think this. In-universe, Vice and Mature are professional bodyguards, and some of the most brutal fighters in the series, so any costume change is seen in context. It can be easy to forget what it looks like to everyone else.

      Similarly, Leona looks better to you than to aficionados because we are aware of her character, and that colours how we see her appearance. (Suffice it to say that TVTropes includes “moe” in her character sheet)

      Of course, the vast majority of players rightly give not a single fuck about the story or characterization of fighting games, so that’s a bad way of looking at it. Still,it’s an easy trap to fall into.

      • “Vice and Mature are professional bodyguards” Ah! Well that makes sense.

        But Leona still looks more like a practical fighter whether I was aware of her character or not.

    • Remember that they’re not in the “awesome” category, also. They’re in the “better than they used to be” category, which isn’t the same thing.

  6. The argument of covered up = appropriate fighting attire is ridiculous (so is complaining about realism in a game where people shoot fireballs out of their hands but whatever). One just needs to look at boxing or MMA to see what proper fighting attire is. I’ll give you hint, it isn’t a tuxedo or an equestrian outfit. It is usually a sports bra (sometimes a tank top over top) with shorts or some type of Gi. Out of the ones listed here, Leona and Yuri are dressed the most appropriate.

    • Well, yeah, but that’s not really feasible because it’s boring as hell for all the characters to look the same. It’s also vital from a marketing perspective, because fighting games are highly technical, meaning “cool new character” is a lot easier to sell than mechanics to a general population that doesn’t know what a cross-up is. You absolutely need something distinctive, which is how you get some of these designs (That’s also why fighting games generally have higher diversity than the standard series. Seriously, find me a transgendered human in a game that isn’t a fighter.)

      Now, considering that these characters are going to have costumes, it only makes sense that we ask for cool ones, yes? So it’s a problem when characters are constantly under-dressed: that’s squandered potential for making interesting characters. (and yes, costume is vitally important for that purpose. Notice how there has never been a successful superheroine for instance)

      You’re right about realism, though. It’s silly to complain that characters don’t look ripped enough to win a fight in a universe that canonically has shit like magic, psychic powers, and divine intervention. (Athena is the incarnation of, well, Athena. Because Greek Gods apparently learned that trick from the neighbours or something.)

      • “Well, yeah, but that’s not really feasible because it’s boring as hell for all the characters to look the same”

        True. There should be a balanced mix between sexy and conservative.

        “Notice how there has never been a successful superheroine for instance”

        Eh…Lara Croft? Chell? Joanna Dark? Chun Li? Samus Aran?

        • I’m not saying talking about the level of sex in a character design, because that’s entirely subjective. One could easily see how your standard heterosexual male gamer could be turned on way more by Elizabeth up there than Mai, for instance.

          What I am discussing is that costume is a vital part of establishing a unique identity for a character, and in general, it’s harder to do that when the costumes cover less than half of the body because then the body becomes part of the costume, and human bodies are a less distinctive, barring extreme cases, than clothes. Look at the women of the new Mortal Kombat game, for instance. See any of them that pops out at you?

          “Eh…Lara Croft? Chell? Joanna Dark? Chun Li? Samus Aran?”
          None of those characters are superheroines! I chose my example very deliberately for the gender dimorphism in the genre’s costuming and how that makes the characters uninteresting. Even Wonder Woman, the only superheroine the general population is aware of, is only really remembered for her costume. Other supehrheroines are not so lucky because “sexy lady” is a pretty limited concept that only works one or maybe two times at most. Bringing it back to video games, let’s use Street Fighter for an example of this: Name a “sexy woman/girl” character that isn’t Chun Li or Cammy. You probably had to look them up, and I assure you there are a ton..

      • “Seriously, find me a transgendered human in a game that isn’t a fighter”

        Metal Gear Solid!😄

      • Oh I agree that having everyone dressed in proper fighting attire would be boring. I took it to that extreme because the main argument for good character design is covered up and no heels because it is more how a fighter would dress which isn’t true.

        There is really only one overtly sexual character design and that is Mai which is a pretty good ratio if you ask me. If anything the guys are showing more skin than the ladies are.

        As for your transgender challenge, Poison from Final Fight and Kanji Tatsumi from Persona 4 (I could be wrong about Kanji as I have never played Persona 4 and I just remember reading about it).

        • No worries, I wasn’t taking your comment as prescriptive, just pointing out that there are aesthetic reasons to like, say, Elizabeth’s outfit compared to Mai’s, that it isn’t an issue of verisimilitude.

          I’m quite enjoying this conversation. It’s kind of refreshing, to be honest, to find someone that realizes that the heels are just as absurd as the rest of the costume from a practical perspective. (like seriously, those coattails!)

          Poison’s been in Street Fighter, but sure, I’ll give you that.

          Kanji’s not a trandgendered person, just a fairly standard “guy confused over his sexual orientation,” because he likes “girly” hobbies. (which is a pretty stupid reason to think you might be gay, but hey, high school students. Stupider shit has happened.)

  7. I agree with what’s being said for the most part, but I’m not so keen on the pet peeve about long hair. Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand that it’s utterly unrealistic to have long hair in a combat situation (even if I hadn’t had to cut my hair off before enlisting, I still probably would have, in retrospect,) but in terms of the artistic direction of a video game or movie, if every female (or, heck, male) character in action video games needed to have short hair as a prerequisite for awesomeness, in the name of “realism,” I think I’d grow rather displeased.

    I can see it bothers some people, and that’s wholly respectable, but frankly I just don’t think the realism is worth it in this instance. It’s not like long hair is anatomically incorrect; it’s just impractical, and frankly, so is a tuxedo.

    Of course, good-looking long hair is pretty much impossible to render well in 3D, so I would expect to see less and less of it in video games and movies as time goes on.

    • ,,Of course, good-looking long hair is pretty much impossible to render well in 3D, so I would expect to see less and less of it in video games and movies as time goes on.”

      You do not know the game industry very well, do you?

      • Care to elaborate? I’ve wasted more of my life playing video games than I’d care to admit.

        • The level of production now and 10 years ago is the difference between clunky 3D isometric bodies made of pixel boxes and the cinematic feel you get form Dead Space 2, Infamous 2, Witcher 2, Prototype 2 (I know: a lot of sequels but they have the most polished graphics) etc.

  8. I’d say they’re really doing quite well – except for the lack of variety of body types for the women. Leona’s outfit looks perfectly reasonable to me for fighting. Maybe a full-length tank top would make a little more sense, but with so many of the men shirtless or showing flesh, her cropped tank top doesn’t stand out (there’s even a guy in one). Likewise, Mature and Vice may be showing cleavage, but when showing skin isn’t a woman-only thing, it doesn’t bother me.

    Really, what they need to do is make the women’s body types as varied as the men’s, and, if any of the women are going to lose clothing in their finishing moves, and equal number of the guys should lose clothing in their finishing moves. And with equivalent responses (that is, if the women are embarrassed, the men should be, too), making it an equal opportunity titilation/silliness.

    Mai, though, I’m not sure what to do about. Her outfit is absurd on many levels and I can’t think of an equivalently ridiculous male outfit, short of having a character who fights in the nude, with an appropriately placed censor bar over his goodies.

    • “Mai, though, I’m not sure what to do about. Her outfit is absurd on many levels and I can’t think of an equivalently ridiculous male outfit, short of having a character who fights in the nude, with an appropriately placed censor bar over his goodies.”

      LMFAO!

      And yes I can picture it lol ^_^

    • A lot of this can be traced to one of the series’ most beloved artists, Falcoon, being a gay man who had a breast fixation, (Sexuality is weird, okay?) which left a major influence. So we have K’ and Iori Yagami being atracctive men, (and believe me, fangirls showed up in the truckloads when Iori did, and every new storyline has given them more incentive) but our attractive women tend to be a bit… one note. (Mai and Lien Neville being the most glaring examples)

      • That does seem to be an example of something similar, all right. His being half blue distracts from it a little, though, and it doesn’t have the discomfort factor. (Most, if not all women look at Mai and think “oww”. Fighting with unsupported large breasts would hurt.

        Of course, if you gave her a silly outfit that did support her breasts, then all you need is a mostly naked guy in a silly outfit.

        • Hmm, it’s still somehow not as silly as Mai’s outfit. I can’t decide if it’s just that a mostly naked guy doesn’t seem as sexual as a mostly naked woman, if it’s the simplicity of the outfit (would a few decorative bits hanging off his banana-hammoc do it?), or if it’s the whole ow factor thing.

          I will say that if one of the men in King of Fighters was in a Speedo, Mai would stand out less.

          • I think part of that might be that the fundoshi-type underwear doesn’t pretend to be anything other than underwear, while Mai’s outfit is, in theory, intended as actual clothing — Mai herself would probably seem significantly less silly if she wore a sports bra and bike pants. Another part could be that the hyper-exaggerated musculature draws too much attention to his (macho manly man) chest, arms, and back for the lack of pants to seem as important while not actually making him much more attractive to women.

            A better comparison would be Kuja’s thong and thigh-high combination, which covers more skin while drawing more attention to the naughty bits.

            • Well, we were talking about fighting games, so I didn’t think Final Fantasy characters would be relevant to this.

              But that is an interesting point. The half-naked (or more) guy isn’t seen as sexual to most people whereas the reverse is not true, even if the woman has muscles too. Red Sonja and Conan come to mind. She’s the sexy one even though she’s actually covering more than he is. (she actually started out with chain shirt, but then Marvel did the one universally stupid thing for a creator: they listened to fan suggestions)

              • Well, we were talking about fighting games, so I didn’t think Final Fantasy characters would be relevant to this.

                The images I linked to were from Dissidia, so it’s still relevant even if you’re just talking fighting games. 😉 The pirate costume only appears in Dissidia, so it’s a fighting game-only design, even.

                The half-naked (or more) guy isn’t seen as sexual to most people whereas the reverse is not true, even if the woman has muscles too.

                I think there are more factors than just the amount of skin shown for both sexes. Lack of clothing is just one of a whole set of markers for (passive) availability; it’s quite rare that female character art (or, at least, the kind that isn’t fully covered) doesn’t have any of the others, though male characters like Conan can pull it off. Someone like Ayla from Chrono Trigger almost pulls it off, but even that isn’t quite as devoid of those markers as Conan is.

              • Right, I forgot Dissidia. Fair point then.

                The interesting thing about Final Fantasy is that fangirls aren’t really into Kuja. (Most of the love I’ve seen goes for Jecht and Sephiroth) I don’t really think there are universal signals for sexual appeal; I think why, and how we lust for things is gendered significantly.

                As to the Ayla thing, I’m guessing that there’s sex appeal because Ayla has connotations of One Million Years B.C. and Earth’s Children, with a bit of amazon thrown in for good measure. (speaking from an Anglo perspective, the Japanese that made this game obviously have different triggers) None of that is anything near non-sexual.

              • The interesting thing about Final Fantasy is that fangirls aren’t really into Kuja. (Most of the love I’ve seen goes for Jecht and Sephiroth)

                Final Fantasy fangirls tend to swarm around Tetsuya Nomura’s creations, so no one from IX has quite the following that VII, VIII, and X characters can bring in. And Kuja definitely has a following of his own; even if it’s not nearly as big as Sephiroth’s, it’s certainly more… single-minded. Actually, judging by deviantArt and Fanfiction.net stats, he’s more popular than Jecht, despite the latter being positioned as Memetic Sex God by Dissidia itself.

                Which brings me to my next point:
                I don’t really think there are universal signals for sexual appeal; I think why, and how we lust for things is gendered significantly.

                If that’s the case, why do I run into so much fanart of male characters in female fetishware (drawn by fangirls) on Tumblr and Pixiv? Why are submissive, “vulnerable” characteristics so commonly given to male characters in female-driven fanart?

                I honestly think there can be a significant amount of crossover if the community supports it.

                As to the Ayla thing, I’m guessing that there’s sex appeal because Ayla has connotations of One Million Years B.C. and Earth’s Children, with a bit of amazon thrown in for good measure.

                Mind explaining that some more for someone with no knowledge of either? Without knowing the specifics, it kind of sounds like cave-women and female warriors are inherently sexualized… (which I doubt is what you really meant to say)?

              • “I honestly think there can be a significant amount of crossover if the community supports it.”

                This I sort of agree with. I mean, we live in a society where straight men and lesbians make their own types of lesbian porn because they don’t have complementary tastes, and even heterosexual people buy different heterosexaul porn, so it’s obvious that there are some major differences between what arouses men and women…

                …But on the other hand, as a friend pointed out when we discussed this subject, there’s more Dead or Alive fic on fanfiction.net than there is of Dissidia and Tvtropes even notes “women” as being a peripheral demographic for the volleyball games, so I’m pretty sure that there is literally nothing that will keep women from something if even the slightest bit turns them on, no matter how hard the rest of it tells them to fuck off. (I’m doubting that men would put up with the same level of… this, but just knowing DOA has a large female fanbase makes me open to any possibility.) God, considering how things are now, just imagine what would happen if Tecmo pandered to women even a tenth as hard as they do to men. The possibilities boggle the mind.

                “Without knowing the specifics, it kind of sounds like cave-women and female warriors are inherently sexualized”

                No, I’m just saying that Jean M. Auel’s fetishes were a big part of the Earth’s Children series, and Ayla is literally named after the main character. She’s also got an undeniable resemblance to Welch’s character from One Million Years BC.

                But broadly, yes, it’s impossible to create anything that isn’t inherently sexualized.The question is not “should this be sexy?” Breasts, legs, buttocks, feet, lips, eyes, hair, stomach, nose, armpits, etc. Someone will find something, and that’s not even getting into actual characterization. Hell, even if you completely depersonalize the thing then some people will still be turned on because of its depersonalization, so the question becomes instead “How should this be sexy?”

              • This I sort of agree with. I mean, we live in a society where straight men and lesbians make their own types of lesbian porn because they don’t have complementary tastes, and even heterosexual people buy different heterosexaul porn, so it’s obvious that there are some major differences between what arouses men and women…

                Well, remember, in that case there are going to be some major perspective issues on top of differing tastes.

                A het woman is going to want the focus to be on the man, while a het man is going to want the focus to be on the woman. Even if they both like to see the objects of their lust in, say, french maid outfits or wearing thigh-highs, they’re going to demand different content, because the one wearing the costume would obviously be different in each case.

                And in the lesbian case, there’d be a clear distinction between the het man’s preference — both women performing for him — and the lesbian woman’s preference (which I’m not really going to speculate on for fear of embarrassing myself, but would definitely be different).

                …But on the other hand, as a friend pointed out when we discussed this subject, there’s more Dead or Alive fic on fanfiction.net than there is of Dissidia and Tvtropes even notes “women” as being a peripheral demographic for the volleyball games, so I’m pretty sure that there is literally nothing that will keep women from something if even the slightest bit turns them on, no matter how hard the rest of it tells them to off. (I’m doubting that men would put up with the same level of… this, but just knowing DOA has a large female fanbase makes me open to any possibility.) God, considering how things are now, just imagine what would happen if Tecmo pandered to women even a tenth as hard as they do to men. The possibilities boggle the mind.

                I’m not convinced that ff.n stats for Dissidia are all that accurate — I missed the fact that it was there at all at first, and it has 10x more hits on dA. And, on top of that, Final Fantasy crossovers seem to be thrown wherever people feel like putting them (especially since there are a large number of AU fanworks that have no more to do with Dissidia than they do with their characters’ original games), so getting an accurate number would be difficult.

                TV Tropes didn’t say that DoA had a large female fanbase, just “some female fans” (which could mean anything). There are a ton of deviations on dA, but dA tends to have more male involvement so it’s hard to separate out demographics without looking at the art itself — and as DoA’s results are full of bikini girl pinups instead of bishonen (as well as massive amounts of unrelated images), I’d guess that the female fanbase is a small minority even on dA.

                Which isn’t to say you’re wrong on the general point that women are way more inclined to put up with stuff that panders to men than the other way around — men are so used to not having that kind of stuff shoved in their face that they tend to flee at the first sign of it. =/

                No, I’m just saying that Jean M. Auel’s fetishes were a big part of the Earth’s Children series, and Ayla is literally named after the main character. She’s also got an undeniable resemblance to Welch’s character from One Million Years BC.

                Oh, okay. I actually had heard of that Clan of the Cave Bear thing before (in the context of the main character being the worst Mary Sue ever), and, huh. I think I’m going to go with Wiki’s claim that Chrono Trigger’s Ayla is a parody, though I definitely see what you mean now.

                But broadly, yes, it’s impossible to create anything that isn’t inherently sexualized.The question is not “should this be sexy?” Breasts, legs, buttocks, feet, lips, eyes, hair, stomach, nose, armpits, etc. Someone will find something, and that’s not even getting into actual characterization. Hell, even if you completely depersonalize the thing then some people will still be turned on because of its depersonalization, so the question becomes instead “How should this be sexy?”

                I think the proper question would be, “does the sexiness interfere with more important things like the ability to relate to the character as a person?” Which is a part of your question, really, but more specific and less prone to derailing into weighing fetishes against each other. 😉

              • “Well, remember, in that case there are going to be some major perspective issues on top of differing tastes.”

                Which is why I expressed doubt that you can equally appeal to different demographics en mass. They might tolerate service to the other market, but that’s vastly different than ignoring it. (there will always be those strange people like me that don’t have a sexuality to be threatened, but I don’t have delusions of significance)

                “And in the lesbian case, there’d be a clear distinction between the het man’s preference — both women performing for him — and the lesbian woman’s preference (which I’m not really going to speculate on for fear of embarrassing myself, but would definitely be different).”

                Right, even people that want the same things want them in different ways, ways in which you can’t even describe! Are you getting me?

                “[ff.net and DA stuff]”

                Fair enough, I suppose I trusted the indexes to be accurate a bit too much. As to DA, I’m not familiar with it, so I’ll take your word on that subject.

                “Which isn’t to say you’re wrong on the general point that women are way more inclined to put up with stuff that panders to men than the other way around — men are so used to not having that kind of stuff shoved in their face that they tend to flee at the first sign of it.”

                I know, the closest thing I can think to of men in that position is Bleach beign a shounen manga that makes every man look (and eventually dress) like a fashion model, and even that had a metric ton (I might not even be exaggerating here, seriously) of large breasted women to counterbalance.

                “Oh, okay. I actually had heard of that Clan of the Cave Bear thing before (in the context of the main character being the worst Mary Sue ever), and, huh. I think I’m going to go with Wiki’s claim that Chrono Trigger’s Ayla is a parody, though I definitely see what you mean now.”
                1. “Worst mary sue” is putting it putting it lightly. A thousand Bella Swans would not even be in the same order of magnitude.
                2. Being a parody is besides the point. There’s nothing mutally exclusive between humour and sexuality. (Burlesque anyone?) Bayonetta, for example, is not a character anyone could possibly take seriously, and yet the fanworks speak for themselves.

                “I think the proper question would be, “does the sexiness interfere with more important things like the ability to relate to the character as a person?” Which is a part of your question, really, but more specific and less prone to derailing into weighing fetishes against each other.”

                But see, you are weighing fetishes against each other when you do that. To wit, you’re denigrating the evocation of lust as compared to other emotions, and that’s a false dichotomy because personalities are also fetishes (the infamous tsundere being the biggest example).

              • Which is why I expressed doubt that you can equally appeal to different demographics en mass. They might tolerate service to the other market, but that’s vastly different than ignoring it. (there will always be those strange people like me that don’t have a sexuality to be threatened, but I don’t have delusions of significance)

                Right, even people that want the same things want them in different ways, ways in which you can’t even describe! Are you getting me?

                Oh, okay, I misunderstood. There’s no disagreement here.

                Fair enough, I suppose I trusted the indexes to be accurate a bit too much. As to DA, I’m not familiar with it, so I’ll take your word on that subject.

                It was a fair assumption to make. It’s just a particularly weird fandom to take stock of.

                I know, the closest thing I can think to of men in that position is Bleach beign a shounen manga that makes every man look (and eventually dress) like a fashion model, and even that had a metric ton (I might not even be exaggerating here, seriously) of large breasted women to counterbalance.

                I’m not sure that’s an uncommon occurance in Japan — TV Tropes calls it “Bishonen Jump Syndrome, and almost all of the really big shonen series that made it big in the West are affected by it to some degree (at least as far as the lead characters are concerned).

                It sometimes even shows up in videogames, with Final Fantasy being the posterchild: it’s gone so far that the male lead characters in an upcoming game are wearing clothing custom-designed by a Japanese fashion label.

                I really have no idea how Japanese men/boys react to it, but I know for a fact that there’s sometimes massive backlash against it in the West. =/

                Being a parody is besides the point. There’s nothing mutally exclusive between humour and sexuality. (Burlesque anyone?) Bayonetta, for example, is not a character anyone could possibly take seriously, and yet the fanworks speak for themselves.

                Yeah, that’s true, and I didn’t really mean to imply that was the case (just that, for the sake of my own sanity, I’d rather believe that the Ayla character in Chrono Trigger wasn’t a tribute to the Worst Mary Sue Ever and was really just poking fun at it).

                But see, you are weighing fetishes against each other when you do that. To wit, you’re denigrating the evocation of lust as compared to other emotions, and that’s a false dichotomy because personalities are also fetishes (the infamous tsundere being the biggest example).

                Well… hmm, let’s see if I can put into words what I mean here.

                A personality fetish isn’t really that much different from an appearance fetish, and it’s just as likely to get in the way of creating a compelling human character. Even though it, by definition, requires the character to have a personality (instead of just being a pretty doll), giving a character a set of one-dimensional traits to pander to an audience is nearly as bad as giving them none at all.

                I’m sure some people consider fully-fleshed out, interesting characters to be attractive (in fact, I rather hope this is a common trait). But that’s not really a fetish to be weighed against tsunderes and blow-up dolls — it actually is superior to the evocation of lust, because it appeals to people who don’t find the character sexy just as much as it does to people who do.

              • I’m aware of Shounen Jump’s bishie tenancies, but seriously, the artist was an illustrator for the fashion industry and he never really stopped.

                The general reaction, I’ve been told, is for men to simply not play those sort of games, much like over here. The difference is that Japan has a robust fangirl consumer culture to match the fanboys, which makes it a trade the industry can actually afford. So it doesn’t matter that Sengoku Basara, for instance, has a 90% female audience at the conventions because they spend just as much money on merchandise as men would. That’s the crucial difference from the fangirls here: ours are more DIY, and corporations don’t make money off of fanworks, so it’s mmuch easier (and, more importantly, profitable) to ignore a fangirl for the sake of the male audience than a fujoshi.

                “giving a character a set of one-dimensional traits to pander to an audience is nearly as bad as giving them none at all.

                I’m sure some people consider fully-fleshed out, interesting characters to be attractive (in fact, I rather hope this is a common trait). But that’s not really a fetish to be weighed against tsunderes and blow-up dolls — it actually is superior to the evocation of lust, because it appeals to people who don’t find the character sexy just as much as it does to people who do.”

                But see, here’s the thing: Characters are constructs, not people. All of those rounded characters are composed of multiple “one dimensional traits” as you call them. You’re like a person arguing for natural remedies, but it doesn’t work that way. The best narcotics (and make no mistake, media is narcotic) are refined to the fundamental substances and combined into the proper cocktails with care and diligence. Those. “fully fleshed-out, interesting characters” are manufactured from the same basic tropes. The only difference is that they have more of them; the characters are still attractive for very specific and simple reasons no matter their depth, (like, Alyx Vance is “girl next door,” Jade from Beyond Good and Evil is a Hot Scoop etc.) which means that there’s nothing that says that our tsundere can’t have other traits. But what if those traits we want do, as you allege, compromise the fetish we appeal to? Then we merely find a new fetish to complement them. (there’s one that fits for every possible situation; people got off to the Hellraiser movies, after all) Now we could, of course, ignore the entire issue and build our characters blindly, but except that we’d have the same character, except functionally inferior.

                But here I sense we’re coming to an irresolvable difference in taste. I get the feeling that you’re the sort that sees sexuality as an erasing force when present. (sadly, it is always present) I see sexuality as an accessory, but you seem to hold it as something fundamentally totalitarian At any rate, the discussion is pointless as neither of us are in a position to make characters. (well, game characters at least)

              • I’m aware of Shounen Jump’s bishie tenancies, but seriously, the artist was an illustrator for the fashion industry and he never really stopped.

                Oh, okay. Now this I didn’t know. You learn something new every day, I guess. 😄

                The general reaction, I’ve been told, is for men to simply not play those sort of games, much like over here. The difference is that Japan has a robust fangirl consumer culture to match the fanboys, which makes it a trade the industry can actually afford. So it doesn’t matter that Sengoku Basara, for instance, has a 90% female audience at the conventions because they spend just as much money on merchandise as men would. That’s the crucial difference from the fangirls here: ours are more DIY, and corporations don’t make money off of fanworks, so it’s mmuch easier (and, more importantly, profitable) to ignore a fangirl for the sake of the male audience than a fujoshi.

                It seems like this might be more of a chicken-and-egg issue, though. A big part of the reason why fangirl culture over here is so DIY is because there isn’t the kind of industry set up to produce and promote professional stuff for them to buy (outside of localized Japanese media, of course), so they just buy from and sell to each other instead.

                I’m not really convinced Western media producers have any data whatsoever about what fangirls will do, because they’ve never given them a shot. =/

                But see, here’s the thing: Characters are constructs, not people. All of those rounded characters are composed of multiple “one dimensional traits” as you call them. You’re like a person arguing for natural remedies, but it doesn’t work that way. The best narcotics (and make no mistake, media is narcotic) are refined to the fundamental substances and combined into the proper cocktails with care and diligence. Those. “fully fleshed-out, interesting characters” are manufactured from the same basic tropes. The only difference is that they have more of them; the characters are still attractive for very specific and simple reasons no matter their depth, (like, Alyx Vance is “girl next door,” Jade from Beyond Good and Evil is a Hot Scoop etc.) which means that there’s nothing that says that our tsundere can’t have other traits. But what if those traits we want do, as you allege, compromise the fetish we appeal to? Then we merely find a new fetish to complement them. (there’s one that fits for every possible situation; people got off to the Hellraiser movies, after all) Now we could, of course, ignore the entire issue and build our characters blindly, but except that we’d have the same character, except functionally inferior.

                But here I sense we’re coming to an irresolvable difference in taste. I get the feeling that you’re the sort that sees sexuality as an erasing force when present. (sadly, it is always present) I see sexuality as an accessory, but you seem to hold it as something fundamentally totalitarian At any rate, the discussion is pointless as neither of us are in a position to make characters. (well, game characters at least)

                It’s an irresolvable difference in taste, alright, but of a different sort than the one you suggest.

                See… I don’t think media works that way. You’re trying to apply the methods of science to art and… they’re just not the same thing. At all. The type of character creation you suggest just seems horribly reductivist — something like, “the more concentrated a character’s trope ingredients are, the better the character is.” But anyone who writes fiction will tell you that’s the ”worst” way to make a character (yes, even worse than listening to the fans). The things that “dilute” a character are the very same things that make characters unique and interesting!

                The best characters are often products of the subconscious. They’re not put together piece by piece from Trope Legos; they come into existence more formed than that, with voices of their own that is quite likely to conflict with whatever fetish you wish to inflict on them. Actually, the fact that Generic Videogame Babes do seem to be put together from Trope Legos is part of what makes them so terrible.

  9. Eh the whole tying the hair back thing is a bit nitpicky cause I\’m a pro-boxer with really long hair and i never tie that shit back

    • Doesn’t boxing generally minimize non-punch contact? I could see how long hair might not get in the way too badly for you in a boxing match, but it’d be a lot more of a problem for other martial arts with lots of grabs and throws, or scenarios where fair play isn’t assumed.

  10. That’s a gay-ass discussion. It’s not a costume-dressing game. It’s a fighter.

    Also amazing how the writer doesn’t know a lot of those character existed years (even over a decade) before KOF 94. Athena looks like she did in her 80’s games, for example.

    Just made-up, uninformed discussion.

  11. About Yuri, there are lots of asians that still look like in their teen when in fact they are in their 30’s. If you’re basing these from American standard. Don’t! That also goes for the rest.

    • I don’t think that’s the problem by itself. The problem lies in that she looks very young AND has trouble keeping her damn clothes on. And as far as Kula goes, anyone should be creeped out by the sexualization of 14 year olds, because, brr. That shit is just wrong.

  12. You should see what KOF looked like pre-XII (here’s an early King: http://images.wikia.com/snk/images/0/00/King95.gif). Next to that, King’s KOFXIII redesign is eight shades of terrible. There’s not much inherently wrong with what she’s wearing, but the boob jiggling, the rapey, creepo-friendly soundbytes and general completely-missing-the-point of King’s character are what finally made me realize that Playmore is not the SNK I know and love. Then again, maybe I should’ve realized that in 2004, when they stole Vanessa’s bra because WUTS THE POINT OF HAVING A CHICK IF YOU CANT FAP TO HER LOL.

    It’s especially frustrating when you know just how good KOF used to be at providing credible female characters that you could play as without feeling like a creep. While everybody and their mother was going “MAITITS LOLOLOLO”, I was having fun kicking ass with King, Mature, Vice, Leona and Vanessa among others. (Hell, KOF ’96 was easily the closest the genre has ever gotten to gender equality.) It pissed me off enough that people thought of KOF as the DOA of 2D on the basis of ONE character, now Playmore’s going out of their way to make them right. Fuck this.

    PS. Yes, Vice and Mature are badass. Fact. (These are trench coats, not dresses.) Leona too, when you consider who she inherits her fighting style from.

  13. You rated Yuri pretty low because of of how her clothes can be destroyed, yet you didn’t rate King low despite exactly the same thing happening to her, revealing her bra and part of her legs. This also applies to the guy above since he seems to be unaware that it was in KoF 94 and 95 that players were rewarded with being able to blow off the clothes of several of the female characters. The rest of the article reads, for the most part, like a sexually repressed teenager seeing sex everywhere he looks.

    The names Vice and Mature are suggestive? Of what? A workman’s tool for gripping objects he’s working on? Someone who is level-headed and wise? Then you complain about female characters sometimes having costumes that show a bit of skin (despite this being fairly common amongst women in real life) but actually like Benimaru’s costume for showing his naked midriff (despite this being incredibly rare amongst men in real life, unless it’s a beer belly poking out under a t-shirt). Ash and Kula have essentially the same clothes, but they’re great on him and sexist and provocative on her? It’s sounding more and more like you’re either a repressed homosexual or an incredibly sexually immature teenager.

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